Naar Carclean.nl
Welkom gast! Zoeken | Nieuwe berichten sinds | Inloggen | Registreren

Dodo Juice's Colour Charging Experiment [UPDATE na 3 maanden] Opties
Dibbuz
#1 Gepost : vrijdag 20 mei 2011 19:36:18
Rang: Moderator
Hulpvaardig goud: Het toppunt van hulpvaardigheid!Detailer goud: Detailer in optima forma!Review zilver: Plaatst regelmatig goede reviews.


Lid sinds: 6-4-2008
Locatie: Den Haag eo
Bron: Dodo Juice forum

"DodoDom" schreef:
There has always been a degree of speculation, rumour and assumption regarding colouring in waxes. Is it a cynical marketing ploy to make gulible consumers buy multiple pots of wax unnecessarily? Does it have any effect at all? Why would a true detailer even consider a wax with colour in?

All good questions, that will be answered below.

But let's start at the beginning, when we launched in 2007 as a new manufacturer of hand made car care products.

We went from a kitchen stove to a workable recipe in about 6 months and tried to decide on whether our new wax should have a colour and smell, and if so, what should it be? It didn't take long to realise that:

1) there were lots of wax ingredients out there (some light ingredients like coconut oil and white beeswax, some warm like orange oil and yellow beeswax, and some dark like montan wax and dark beeswax) and that recipes could be slightly altered to give mildly different characteristics (like texture).

2) everyone we canvassed wanted something different; some people liked some smells, some people hated others

and 3) we could make hard waxes, that went on thin and cured quickly (not to mention that had jars that never seemed to go down) or soft waxes, that were more pleasing to spread by palms or fingertips onto paint.

So we decided, out of sheer variety and choice, to make one hard and one soft wax, and then play around with the ingredients (inc fragrances and colours) for the rest of the range. Fun, variety, choice... this was the thought. Not 'oh, we can bring out a wax for every pantone colour and sell a 146 jar set to gullible motorists'.

To give the light, warm and dark recipes a more attractive appearance, we added coloured oils and dyes. We didn't think that these would alter the colour of a car dramatically, or even at all, but a choice of light brown to dark brown waxes were the alternative. We went for the colours, and suggested, because these waxes were light/warm/dark that they would suit those hues.

Of course, you can use any colour wax on any colour car.

You can use a dark wax on a light car so you can see where it has gone.

And you can use a wax without any colour in whatsoever, for absolute purity, which is why we made Supernatural. (Although you could always use Diamond White or Light Fantastic).

The 'general' waxes, Rainforest Rub and Hard Candy were mid-tone and cheaper than the rest. We were happy for these to sell the best and for only the adventurous to buy 'colour charged' waxes.

At no point was there any marketing or 'hype' beyond, for example, putting the Dodo wax made 'for dark coloured cars' on Purple Haze and Blue Velvet, on labels and on the website. It had after all, been made by us, specifically for dark coloured cars... but maybe we needed a big asterisk saying 'but you can use it on any colour and it won't matter that much'. :thumb:

Fast forward a few years and we are bigger and better known, and there's a detailing 'expert' on every forum. Newbies worry about coloured waxes unduly and the village elders like to pronounce that colour makes little or no difference. Well, it makes very little difference (assuming you don't want to apply a dark wax on a light car for ease of application) because waxes all tend to do a similar job and they all buff down to a sub-micron level. If you cover your whole car in a layer of coloured wax, you'd have to have bionic eyes to see the difference compared to a colour-free wax. To the naked eye and casual onlooker it makes 'no difference' in practice, no matter what is actually physically going on with the paint. There is a technical difference, but not a practical one...

A while back, I posted a colour charging demonstration up on our forum. We knew coloured waxes made little real world difference, but were the cynics right when they said it made 'absolutely no difference at all'? We found them to be wrong. The darkening effect of purple haze, multi layered, on a red panel showed a dark area where the wax had been. http://dodojuice.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=653 The result was seen again when I applied Purple Haze Pro in two layers to the side of our white van. It was dusk and I was at AndyC's. He saw the effect for himself... we were doing a 50/50 test and you could see a slight darkening where the wax had been after buffing.

We didn't care much about the tests because the wax range was for variety and fun, and they all worked well. People had their favourites, but it isn't a big thing for us - or wasn't until we came under fire for 'cynical' marketing practices and 'hype', all based on an assumption that because people were wanting dark waxes for dark cars we must have misled them by merely making them available. We hadn't deliberately misled people, but people did sell the idea to themselves. And we still spend our time on PMs, emails and at shows playing down the colourings.

But a few recent posts have been enough for us to conduct a much more serious test to see what really happens when you layer our coloured waxes. Where the cynics right? Does it make 'absolutely no difference'? Or have they been blinded by their own cynicsm? Does it make some difference, even if quite small? Could a car colour be enhanced or subtly changed just with coloured car wax? The decision was made to find out.

I therefore prepared the white bonnet of our van and divided it into 30 panels. We would apply ever increasing layers of Blue Velvet, Blue Velvet Pro, Purple Haze, Purple Haze Pro and Orange Crush (we ran out of bonnet otherwise I'd have done more) over a couple of days and see the results.

The waxes were all finger applied and at least an hour was left between buffing/layers. The long cure would not be possible on a black bonnet on a hot day, but it was applied in average temps in our unit on a white panel, so there were no problems. An hour ensured all waxes had cured (the Pro waxes may take longer).

Here they are after fresh application (unbuffed):


Don't get too excited, they buffed down to this:


So I decided to do up to six layers of each wax. We only recommend two layers for coverage, and it has been shown in some tests that wax 'won't layer' beyond two layers, so if no more wax is being laid down, the colour should stay the same after the second layer. Testing this theory was a useful secondary benefit of the test.

Here it is with another layer of wax on the multiple layer panels:



And here it is after all layers, from one layer to the left, to six layers on the right, have been applied and buffed:



Not exactly a respray by any means, but the wax colours are subtly visible. Orange Crush and Purple Haze Pro appeared the most visible at this point:



Now, I should point out here that NO FANCY CAMERAWORK OR PHOTO MANIPULATION are taking place. I have uploaded original and unedited pics to photobucket and I'm happy to send an original to anyone who wants to verify this. The camera is a D40 on whatever setting it chooses, and the only change was leaving the flash off because it 'blinded' the shot. Natural daylight from the skylight was used. I am not clever enough or patient enough to play around with cameras to create effects I want to convey, but I have edited a pic at the end in Picasa AND SHOWN THE LEVELS so you can see the effect more clearly and saw what I adjusted over the original pic.

OK, unmanipulated pic with the tape off (the strong blue tape made Blue Velvet seem very feint).



And now, natural shots, panel by panel, layer by layer:

Blue Velvet 1 layer, 2 layers, 3 layers - too blurred, photo not uploaded (I got better with the rest of them... the camera wasn't focusing well so I had to use manual not auto focus on these close ups)

Blue Velvet 4 layers, 5 layers, 6 layers


Blue Velvet Pro 1 layer, 2 layers, 3 layers


Blue Velvet Pro 4 layers, 5 layers, 6 layers - notice how the residue has built up by the tape with these thicker layers


Purple Haze 1 layer, 2 layers, 3 layers


Purple Haze 4 layers, 5 layers, 6 layers


Purple Haze Pro 1 layer, 2 layers, 3 layers


Purple Haze Pro 4 layers, 5 layers, 6 layers


Orange Crush 1 layer, 2 layers, 3 layers


Orange Crush 4 layers, 5 layers, 6 layers


And now the money shot, which HAS BEEN EDITED to increase the contrast so any changes to the colour of the paint by the wax can clearly be seen:


CONCLUSIONS

1. It is clear that coloured waxes of a certain type CAN and DO affect the colour of a paint. Whether this is largely due to the coloured oils/dyes or other ingredients is unknown, but I would guess it is mostly the oils.

2. It is obviously a subtle effect. Purple Haze Pro and Orange Crush seemed particularly strong in my tests. Whether you see it on darker coloured paint than white would be debatable, but the oils are there. You cannot physically magic them away by cynically thinking they do 'absolutely nothing'. The absolutely do something but it is something subtle and unnoticed on most occasions. You need a test like this to make it obvious!

3. The fourth layer seemed to have the strongest coloration. This would suggest that you can layer these waxes four times before you start taking old wax off with the fresh layer, or buffing it down to a 'maximum' level. However, it may be that the oils are simply being absorbed by the old wax layers underneath and thus getting darker each time (with the wax remaining at an even level), although the colour shouldn't fall back on subsequent layers if this was the case. Although highly subjective, it would be enough for me to question the 'two layers is maximum' theory. It may vary from product to product, and in these tests, four layers seemed to be optimum. We would still recommend at least two for coverage, and no more because it would be largely unnecessary for the effect or result that needs to be attained. But don't scoff if people layer waxes more than twice. I won't after seeing the panel here.

4. We aren't going to be bringing out a whole rainbow of coloured waxes for every coloured car, although colour and fragrance feature prominently in our range and always will. But let the cynics be assured, those who think layering a coloured residue on a car has absolutely 'no effect whatsoever' are incorrect in their assumption. It does have an effect, although it is a slight and possible unnoticeable one in real terms. If they need to, they can pop over to Bishops Stortford and see the bonnet. Indeed, Nathan from Cambridge Autogleam happened to be passing and saw the subtle results for himself. This test will be readily replicated on a white car with the waxes used, given reasonable prep and application/curing.

5. You can still use any colour wax on any colour car. A white car will not turn deep blue with a layer or two of Blue Velvet on it. But if you want your white car to stay purest white, don't put four coats of Orange Crush on it.

6. Always judge a wax on what it does FOR YOU. If you like it, or can 'see something' then happy days. If you have layered it 25 times and don't notice any difference, then please don't buy it again. Flake pop, hue, reflections... all may be altered by every product, coloured or not, added to the car. Even a shampoo with an unwitting amount of silicone in could darken paint. But don't believe all you read on the forums, or assumptions made by 'experts'. Get out there and test it yourself.

7. Coloured waxes don't last forever on your car. If your white car becomes orange because you overdid it with our new David Dickinson Fake Tan Wax, then it comes off with IPA and wears off over time.

So there you have it. Colour charged waxes - fake tan for cars. :thumb:

Although it's a very subtle effect, and always will be.

If you want to change the colour, get it resprayed.

If you want to try a dark wax on a dark car, or a warm wax on a warm car and don't expect too much (because any effect is SUBTLE) then be our guest. Panel pots do 3-4 layers on a whole car of average proportions and cost 5.95 GBP, so it doesn't cost a lot if you're curious.

And if you're not curious, or think it's all a bit too gimmicky, there's Supernatural, Supernatural Hybrid, Light Fantastic, Diamond White... all without any colour in at all.

Verder gaan is niet zo moeilijk, weten wanneer je moet stoppen wel...
Bastard of Bling!
Forumregels aangepast en uitgebreid, neem de tijd om ze door te lezen.
Dibbuz
#2 Gepost : vrijdag 20 mei 2011 19:44:22
Rang: Moderator
Hulpvaardig goud: Het toppunt van hulpvaardigheid!Detailer goud: Detailer in optima forma!Review zilver: Plaatst regelmatig goede reviews.


Lid sinds: 6-4-2008
Locatie: Den Haag eo
Moet eerlijk bekennen dat ik dit effect niet zo erg had verwacht. De wax is nog steeds de kers op de gehele taart (gehele detail) maar colour charged waxes zoals de Dodo's en Natty's voegen wel degelijk wat toe.

Verder gaan is niet zo moeilijk, weten wanneer je moet stoppen wel...
Bastard of Bling!
Forumregels aangepast en uitgebreid, neem de tijd om ze door te lezen.
GMToyota
#3 Gepost : vrijdag 20 mei 2011 20:10:21
Rang: Lid


Lid sinds: 28-10-2009
Locatie: Zuid-Holland
Ja ik las het ook al op detailingworld. Het zijn vooral de oliën en kleurpigment die het kleurverschil maken.

Ik zag het zelf ook ooit eens met 2 lagen van een donkerrood gekleurde wax; die maakte m'n groene lak toch echt een tintje donkergroener. Het is wel heel subtiel, maar wel merkbaar.
RedCat
#4 Gepost : vrijdag 20 mei 2011 20:29:11
Rang: Lid
Hulpvaardig zilver: Zeer regelmatig behulpzaam.


Lid sinds: 15-11-2009
Locatie: Midden Nederland
Waren de Orange voor de Rooie en de Rainforest voor de Healey toch de goede aankopen jippie
Leuke test, en duidelijk beschreven en in beeld gebracht.

Hans
The best start for an answer, is someone to come up with a good question.
Bartezzz
#5 Gepost : vrijdag 20 mei 2011 20:44:02
Rang: Lid



Lid sinds: 8-5-2010
Locatie: Hilversum
Dit is een mooie voor het Eye-opener topic LoL http://forum.carclean.nl...etailing-of-anders.aspx


Ik vind dit een goeie zet van dodo op het eens een beetje te verduidelijke.

ik vind het zeker niet raar, als je kijkt hoe sterk gepigmenteerd de wax is.

Bedankt voor het plaatsen, ik wou het anders al doen geniet
groeten Bart

=> Goede raad is duur. Er niet naar luisteren nog duurder.

=> Waar een detailer gaat, is ook een 1-pots wondermiddel met "hetzelfde resultaat".
Jacco89
#6 Gepost : vrijdag 20 mei 2011 22:28:22
Rang: Lid



Lid sinds: 5-12-2010
Locatie: Azewijn
Nu ben ik NOG ongeduldiger geworden om de diamond white + light fantastic op mijn wagen te proberen, en wel 2 lagen van beide(2x de hard dan 2x de sof wax), niet omdat het moet, maar omdat het kan en ik tegen die tijd toch 9 weken zomervakantie heb jippie jippie jippie
Vampire
#7 Gepost : vrijdag 20 mei 2011 22:46:54
Rang: Lid


Lid sinds: 14-11-2009
Locatie: Herentals (B)
Dit is een duidelijk bewijs dat die kleurwaxen wel degelijk iets toevoegen.
Blijkbaar kun je nu gerust tot 4 lagen wax gaan ipv de altijd vooropgestelde 2 lagen wax...
BMW E92 320d - "If it doesn't shine, it ain't mine!"

Get in, sit down, shut up, hold on!
nicknameless
#8 Gepost : vrijdag 20 mei 2011 22:51:37
Rang: Lid
Hulpvaardig goud: Het toppunt van hulpvaardigheid!Review zilver: Plaatst regelmatig goede reviews.Detailer brons: Plaats regelmatig details.


Lid sinds: 16-5-2008
Locatie: Den Haag
Dat een gekleurde wax iets toevoegt aan de lak, kunnen Dennis en ik zeker beamen.

Destijds bij een forumlid langs geweest die een rode Renault Twingo had. Hierop de Dodo Juice Blue Velvet gedaan en het behandelde deel werd inderdaad een paar tinten donkerder ohoh

Dibbuz
#9 Gepost : vrijdag 26 augustus 2011 10:43:42
Rang: Moderator
Hulpvaardig goud: Het toppunt van hulpvaardigheid!Detailer goud: Detailer in optima forma!Review zilver: Plaatst regelmatig goede reviews.


Lid sinds: 6-4-2008
Locatie: Den Haag eo
Dodo Factory schreef:
Some of you may remember this thread:

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk.../showthread.php?t=217518

It basically showed how coloured waxes could potentially alter the colour of paint, by tinting the residue left on the vehicle. The effect is pretty subtle, but we engaged in some tests because conventional wisdom stated that colour in waxes had absolutely no effect whatsoever - when that is far from the truth. The effect may be small, but it is there. It is noticeable with the naked eye under some circumstances and conditions, although you do need multiple layers and some form of contrast for it to be obvious. Some users will never see any difference at all.

At the end of month three, I checked the test panels again by washing the van with a pH neutral shampoo (it was not clayed and no harsh chemicals were used... conversely no silicone/sealant residue products were added to the surface via wash, quick detailer, spray sealant etc). These panels were on our works 'Blingo' van, which was used for a number of events in those three months. It saw blinding sun and driving rain. However, it didn't rack up much more than 1000-1500 miles and it is generally kept garaged, so there is no pretence this is a daily driver kept outside 24/7.

As you can see, the colour of the 'charged' panels has diminished significantly, with the residue lines being prominent only.





Whilst the coloured panels do have a very slightly coloured hue to them - most noticeably Orange Crush - you'd have to know the colour was there to spot it. They are visible to the naked eye, just. But after 3 months it can be seen that the dye has faded significantly.

We originally put 1-6 layers of wax on the car and the single layer wasn't really visible at all, but layers 2-6 were identifiable. 4-6 showed little difference between them, suggesting perhaps that the original conclusion that four layers was optimum, was correct.

There are two possibilities therefore:

1) That in three months the dye has faded and the wax protection remains intact to some degree;
or
2) That the wax and dye diminish together, and that the wax protection has diminished at a similar rate to the coloration.

To test the hypothesis, I made an assumption that the van was reasonably clean and free from contamination after the shampoo wash - claying would have removed more contamination embedded in the surface over the 3 months (and therefore have potentially improved beading) but this would also have interfered with the wax coatings to some degree. I therefore opted for a simple water beading test, as I knew areas under the original masking tape strips were unprotected, and I know what beading attributes our waxes have.

If the dye and wax have faded together, the beading should be the same or similar to the unwaxed strips... ie no wax protection.

If there is beading, wax is likely to be present - meaning the dye has been unstable and faded naturally (probably due to the action of UV light - our unit has a skylight so never gets dark in the bay during daylight hours, and can be quite light).

Here's what was seen:





The beading (shown between panels 3 and 4) is impressive and the clean but unprotected strip down the centre shows much poorer water behaviour.

Therefore, it looks like the dye has faded but the wax remains.

If using waxes for any coloured effect, however, subtle, it would be suggested that:
1) you do not expect the tint to last as long as the wax itself
2) you relayer after 1-2 months rather than 3 months or longer
3) you apply more than 2-3 layers initially

It also shows that the dye and wax behave independently, despite being part of the same layer. Like a coloured candle may fade but still retain its shape or characteristics, so it seems coloured car wax may fade on a panel, yet the wax itself outlasts its hue.

Finally, we removed layers 1-3 totally and played around with waxes we didn't test initially, such as Banana Armour, Hard Candy and Rainforest Rub. Banana Armour was similar to Orange Crush and almost as noticeable after four layers as a control panel of Orange Crush we reapplied. But Hard Candy and Rainforest Rub were surprising. Hard Candy was optically much clearer and didn't tint as much as we expected, and Rainforest Rub tinted far more than we imagined. It really left the paint with a limey/light green hue after four layers.



Bron:Detailingworld


Verder gaan is niet zo moeilijk, weten wanneer je moet stoppen wel...
Bastard of Bling!
Forumregels aangepast en uitgebreid, neem de tijd om ze door te lezen.
Stepposs
#10 Gepost : dinsdag 28 februari 2012 23:39:16
Rang: Lid


Lid sinds: 20-2-2012
Locatie: Utrecht
Zie je ik wist het, nadat ik blue velvet pro op mijn auto aan bracht leek die echt donkerder/dieper, ik heb dat nog eens getest met een andere wax uit de dodo lijn en die had dat niet.

Ook toen ik de blue velvet pro op een rode auto aanbracht dacht ik te zien dat die iets donkerder was geworden,
VW Golf MKIII GTI
Acc_Focus
#11 Gepost : donderdag 15 maart 2012 20:12:10
Rang: Lid


Lid sinds: 21-6-2010
Locatie: België antwerpen
mooie tests, dit laat weeral zien dat de dodo bird echt wel bezig is met zijn producten, klanten en vooral met het detailen zelf, om feiten van fictie te scheiden.
ook mooi dat uit deze test blijkt dat je dus wel 4 lagen kan aanbrengen en hier nut uit kan halen! en je het niet enkel doet omdat je jezelf er beter bij voelt.

ik vond het al aannemelijk dat ze iets bijbrachten aan de kleur(had wel niet zoveel verschil verwacht zoals nu blijkt...) aangezien je ook een gekleurde en ongekleurde glaze hebt(en deze hebben wel bewezen direct zichtbaar effect!)

thx voor de posts!
nog liever een ster in men vooruit dan een op men motorkap
Gebruikers aanwezig in dit topic
Guest
Snel naar forum  
Je kunt hier geen nieuwe berichten plaatsen.
Je kunt hier niet antwoorden op berichten.
Je kunt hier geen eigen berichten verwijderen.
Je kunt hier geen eigen berichten bewerken.
Je kunt hier geen polls aanmaken.
Je kunt hier niet stemmen op polls.

Carclean.nl forum layout is ontworpen door Flaire
Powered by YAF | YAF © 2003-2009, Yet Another Forum.NET
Deze pagina is gegenereerd in 0,554 seconden.